1 00:00:02,280 --> 00:00:07,769 [Music] 2 00:00:28,410 --> 00:00:33,010 [Music] 3 00:00:35,130 --> 00:00:39,850 welcome just put Nick orbiting the world 4 00:00:37,690 --> 00:00:41,530 with me George Galloway in me 5 00:00:39,850 --> 00:00:44,530 Gayatri there's an awful lot of 6 00:00:41,530 --> 00:00:47,110 corruption in Brazil but only some of it 7 00:00:44,530 --> 00:00:49,629 is punished and punished by those who 8 00:00:47,110 --> 00:00:52,840 are themselves spectacularly corrupt 9 00:00:49,629 --> 00:00:55,360 first the President Dilma Rousseff was 10 00:00:52,840 --> 00:00:57,850 ousted on corruption allegations and now 11 00:00:55,360 --> 00:00:59,979 her predecessor and very likely her 12 00:00:57,850 --> 00:01:01,510 successor Lula has been jailed for 13 00:00:59,979 --> 00:01:04,150 almost 10 years 14 00:01:01,510 --> 00:01:05,620 on separate corruption charges and the 15 00:01:04,150 --> 00:01:08,320 current president timur 16 00:01:05,620 --> 00:01:11,619 who was instrumental in setting both of 17 00:01:08,320 --> 00:01:13,570 them up is now himself embroiled in 18 00:01:11,619 --> 00:01:16,240 corruption allegations though his 19 00:01:13,570 --> 00:01:18,700 parliamentary colleagues have exculpated 20 00:01:16,240 --> 00:01:20,920 him from those predictably it would be 21 00:01:18,700 --> 00:01:23,229 difficult to make any or all of that up 22 00:01:20,920 --> 00:01:26,140 so joining us to make some sense of it 23 00:01:23,229 --> 00:01:29,290 is Orlando da Rocha he'll was a 24 00:01:26,140 --> 00:01:32,770 specialist in Brazilian affairs Orlando 25 00:01:29,290 --> 00:01:35,680 welcome to the sputnik just set it in 26 00:01:32,770 --> 00:01:39,370 context for the viewers would you what 27 00:01:35,680 --> 00:01:43,150 in general has Lula been accused and did 28 00:01:39,370 --> 00:01:47,710 now convicted of he's been accused of so 29 00:01:43,150 --> 00:01:52,050 called passive corruption no evidence or 30 00:01:47,710 --> 00:01:55,330 has been been presented but he's been 31 00:01:52,050 --> 00:01:58,930 passively and allowing some with a 32 00:01:55,330 --> 00:02:00,670 triplex apartment but it's not even in 33 00:01:58,930 --> 00:02:05,590 his name there's no documents there's no 34 00:02:00,670 --> 00:02:09,819 evidence and even the Serge immoral the 35 00:02:05,590 --> 00:02:13,140 the judge said he has conviction that 36 00:02:09,819 --> 00:02:16,239 he's guilty but there is no proof it's 37 00:02:13,140 --> 00:02:18,150 for most people a spectacularly 38 00:02:16,239 --> 00:02:22,239 politically motivated motivated 39 00:02:18,150 --> 00:02:25,120 prosecution because Lula remains the 40 00:02:22,239 --> 00:02:27,970 most popular single politician in the 41 00:02:25,120 --> 00:02:30,220 country it's quite likely not certain 42 00:02:27,970 --> 00:02:32,799 but quite likely that had he been able 43 00:02:30,220 --> 00:02:34,930 to run for president he would have won 44 00:02:32,799 --> 00:02:37,870 and moreover that he's the only person 45 00:02:34,930 --> 00:02:40,060 in his party the Workers Party that 46 00:02:37,870 --> 00:02:41,680 could win so it's a 47 00:02:40,060 --> 00:02:44,140 it's at the very least and extremely 48 00:02:41,680 --> 00:02:48,550 convenient set of allegations isn't it 49 00:02:44,140 --> 00:02:51,550 he's got a 30% lead on the most recent 50 00:02:48,550 --> 00:02:53,220 poll and but but he can still run for 51 00:02:51,550 --> 00:02:55,870 president some weird thing about this 52 00:02:53,220 --> 00:03:00,489 sentence he hasn't been jailed he's been 53 00:02:55,870 --> 00:03:02,819 sentenced and he can legally can still 54 00:03:00,489 --> 00:03:05,470 run for president 55 00:03:02,819 --> 00:03:06,970 I think when you look at what's 56 00:03:05,470 --> 00:03:09,970 happening in Brazil there are two 57 00:03:06,970 --> 00:03:12,760 different manners of looking at this one 58 00:03:09,970 --> 00:03:16,600 is that this is just a blip an interval 59 00:03:12,760 --> 00:03:19,570 in Brazilian Democratic process and that 60 00:03:16,600 --> 00:03:23,019 you can wait to the second instance and 61 00:03:19,570 --> 00:03:25,200 he because on the the judge surgeon 62 00:03:23,019 --> 00:03:29,080 world who hasn't presented any evidence 63 00:03:25,200 --> 00:03:31,030 he Lula will come out free from this I 64 00:03:29,080 --> 00:03:33,040 don't agree with that I think that's the 65 00:03:31,030 --> 00:03:35,440 the the more correct way of looking at 66 00:03:33,040 --> 00:03:39,160 it is is that this is a very serious 67 00:03:35,440 --> 00:03:42,489 crisis in Brazil and Brazil is going 68 00:03:39,160 --> 00:03:44,410 through very exceptional times where the 69 00:03:42,489 --> 00:03:47,739 Constitution has been violated 70 00:03:44,410 --> 00:03:51,640 Dilma as you pointed out was um was 71 00:03:47,739 --> 00:03:52,480 impeached for for a silly little fiscal 72 00:03:51,640 --> 00:03:55,980 peddling 73 00:03:52,480 --> 00:03:59,230 yeah which any politician any here in a 74 00:03:55,980 --> 00:04:01,540 grassy area yeah it's just fiddling with 75 00:03:59,230 --> 00:04:03,100 the budget to make it look like it 76 00:04:01,540 --> 00:04:05,860 without any personal game there's no 77 00:04:03,100 --> 00:04:08,019 there's no game personal game therefore 78 00:04:05,860 --> 00:04:10,030 she can even run for Senator in the next 79 00:04:08,019 --> 00:04:13,840 elections she hasn't been imprisoned or 80 00:04:10,030 --> 00:04:16,989 anything so the problem is raised more 81 00:04:13,840 --> 00:04:20,079 much more serious so I think if anyone's 82 00:04:16,989 --> 00:04:24,550 just looking at this as a legal of mine 83 00:04:20,079 --> 00:04:27,460 illegal situation that Lula will go out 84 00:04:24,550 --> 00:04:30,880 free what will happen the second 85 00:04:27,460 --> 00:04:33,880 instance will depend a lot more on what 86 00:04:30,880 --> 00:04:37,539 happens in the streets of how the social 87 00:04:33,880 --> 00:04:42,520 movements trade unions and the left can 88 00:04:37,539 --> 00:04:45,400 organize themselves - well first of all 89 00:04:42,520 --> 00:04:47,890 to make sure that Lula's freed and also 90 00:04:45,400 --> 00:04:50,500 that there are elections because whether 91 00:04:47,890 --> 00:04:52,950 there are elections in 2018 is not a 92 00:04:50,500 --> 00:04:57,390 guaranteed thing because I think what is 93 00:04:52,950 --> 00:05:01,800 in Brazil is a realignment of the ruling 94 00:04:57,390 --> 00:05:05,910 class in Brazil there was a crisis in 95 00:05:01,800 --> 00:05:09,000 2011 that's when I mean when the 20 2007 96 00:05:05,910 --> 00:05:13,950 2008 financial crisis hits Brazil in 97 00:05:09,000 --> 00:05:17,130 2011 and the the the process that Lula 98 00:05:13,950 --> 00:05:21,830 tried implementing which is reforms 99 00:05:17,130 --> 00:05:26,340 without really confronting neoliberalism 100 00:05:21,830 --> 00:05:30,120 allowing like the finance minister is 101 00:05:26,340 --> 00:05:33,480 still the same he was he's the the same 102 00:05:30,120 --> 00:05:37,940 one that was in Lula was in the Dilma 103 00:05:33,480 --> 00:05:41,010 and is now with Tamara he's still there 104 00:05:37,940 --> 00:05:43,290 implementing neoliberal policies except 105 00:05:41,010 --> 00:05:46,170 the only problem now is that this is 106 00:05:43,290 --> 00:05:50,520 neoliberal policies without any social 107 00:05:46,170 --> 00:05:52,590 gain I mean forget any sort of legal 108 00:05:50,520 --> 00:05:54,240 rights social contract that's gone 109 00:05:52,590 --> 00:05:56,640 that's out of the women at the pink 110 00:05:54,240 --> 00:05:58,890 tights movement in yes that's a pink tie 111 00:05:56,640 --> 00:06:01,320 tell me the Petersons oh yeah the so 112 00:05:58,890 --> 00:06:04,130 called pink tide which was how do you 113 00:06:01,320 --> 00:06:07,800 get social reforms without confronting 114 00:06:04,130 --> 00:06:10,290 neoliberalism and that's without Gaunt I 115 00:06:07,800 --> 00:06:13,290 just got out just gone out it's gone out 116 00:06:10,290 --> 00:06:16,010 it was tilde before they tried yet yes I 117 00:06:13,290 --> 00:06:19,110 have been King Canute on to be here yeah 118 00:06:16,010 --> 00:06:22,200 this way of one come in you know no now 119 00:06:19,110 --> 00:06:25,620 all of these sectors that you described 120 00:06:22,200 --> 00:06:27,780 are all very badly divided the left is 121 00:06:25,620 --> 00:06:30,360 often divided in many parts of the world 122 00:06:27,780 --> 00:06:32,400 of course but in Brazil it seems to me 123 00:06:30,360 --> 00:06:34,560 that the left is divided the social 124 00:06:32,400 --> 00:06:37,710 movements divided and the trade unions 125 00:06:34,560 --> 00:06:40,830 divided to the detriment of all 3m are 126 00:06:37,710 --> 00:06:46,140 right you are right and I think that is 127 00:06:40,830 --> 00:06:49,500 a consequence of the arm of the option 128 00:06:46,140 --> 00:06:51,870 of not confronting and are not directly 129 00:06:49,500 --> 00:06:55,440 confronting your liberalism you you in 130 00:06:51,870 --> 00:06:58,790 some ways left the social movement you 131 00:06:55,440 --> 00:07:01,980 dis occupied the streets and as you know 132 00:06:58,790 --> 00:07:05,910 politics does not like vacuum and that 133 00:07:01,980 --> 00:07:06,600 was occupied by the the right-wing and 134 00:07:05,910 --> 00:07:09,360 even 135 00:07:06,600 --> 00:07:13,470 fascist groups in Brazil about what's 136 00:07:09,360 --> 00:07:15,690 happening now it is a crisis I mean of a 137 00:07:13,470 --> 00:07:19,530 more tolerant society a democratic 138 00:07:15,690 --> 00:07:24,060 society that process is is finished and 139 00:07:19,530 --> 00:07:26,280 what I think is trying it was first of 140 00:07:24,060 --> 00:07:30,560 all get rid of Dilma and now make sure 141 00:07:26,280 --> 00:07:33,690 that Lula can't run for president is the 142 00:07:30,560 --> 00:07:37,350 closing of this coup and the realignment 143 00:07:33,690 --> 00:07:40,050 of the ruling class in Brazil that is 144 00:07:37,350 --> 00:07:42,750 the project and I think the elite in 145 00:07:40,050 --> 00:07:45,450 Brazil are united in this project 146 00:07:42,750 --> 00:07:47,580 although they might not know who will be 147 00:07:45,450 --> 00:07:51,120 eating it will it be Tamara will it be 148 00:07:47,580 --> 00:07:53,880 my that that's not clear who's going to 149 00:07:51,120 --> 00:07:56,940 be the person there but they are united 150 00:07:53,880 --> 00:07:59,820 on not allowing Lula because as you said 151 00:07:56,940 --> 00:08:01,440 he is the he is the main candidate in 152 00:07:59,820 --> 00:08:04,830 the Workers Party the Workers Party is 153 00:08:01,440 --> 00:08:08,970 still the only political party that has 154 00:08:04,830 --> 00:08:12,060 a national arm net branches everywhere I 155 00:08:08,970 --> 00:08:15,030 mean it is a national party other there 156 00:08:12,060 --> 00:08:19,020 is no other party on the on the Left 157 00:08:15,030 --> 00:08:20,910 that can really transform in all the 158 00:08:19,020 --> 00:08:23,100 country to the elevator the poor which 159 00:08:20,910 --> 00:08:27,830 is both of Amelia yeah definitely 160 00:08:23,100 --> 00:08:31,710 definitely I mean the bolsa família the 161 00:08:27,830 --> 00:08:35,370 quota system in which allowed people of 162 00:08:31,710 --> 00:08:38,370 African descent or managed in indigenous 163 00:08:35,370 --> 00:08:41,090 or went to state schools that would we 164 00:08:38,370 --> 00:08:45,870 allowed places in federal universities 165 00:08:41,090 --> 00:08:49,380 this project book that led students 166 00:08:45,870 --> 00:08:52,170 study abroad there were loads of things 167 00:08:49,380 --> 00:08:54,120 that did it did improve in what's 168 00:08:52,170 --> 00:08:56,790 important about this it did improve but 169 00:08:54,120 --> 00:08:59,790 it wasn't anything revolutionary it's 170 00:08:56,790 --> 00:09:03,300 very Social Democrat in the sense and it 171 00:08:59,790 --> 00:09:06,120 was a tiny percentage of the GDP was 172 00:09:03,300 --> 00:09:08,520 when the 3% of GDP went to these 173 00:09:06,120 --> 00:09:12,030 spending but that was enough to bring up 174 00:09:08,520 --> 00:09:14,190 the the to finish poverty but Brazil was 175 00:09:12,030 --> 00:09:16,020 taken out of the map of poverty well 176 00:09:14,190 --> 00:09:18,780 sounds use the French Revolution they 177 00:09:16,020 --> 00:09:20,290 did of course a pain that those who have 178 00:09:18,780 --> 00:09:23,649 make a revolution 179 00:09:20,290 --> 00:09:25,750 are digging their own graves and in a 180 00:09:23,649 --> 00:09:28,000 sense that's what you're describing here 181 00:09:25,750 --> 00:09:31,120 now isn't it because Lula and the 182 00:09:28,000 --> 00:09:34,360 Workers Party have made a revolution 183 00:09:31,120 --> 00:09:37,899 they frighten the horses and the ruling 184 00:09:34,360 --> 00:09:40,930 class and now it may be that they are 185 00:09:37,899 --> 00:09:43,709 headed for the political grave unless 186 00:09:40,930 --> 00:09:46,240 you think the street can move 187 00:09:43,709 --> 00:09:48,779 sufficiently to frighten the ruling 188 00:09:46,240 --> 00:09:52,180 class back yeah to make them back off 189 00:09:48,779 --> 00:09:54,759 allow Lula to run be elected as 190 00:09:52,180 --> 00:09:57,220 president and be just a social 191 00:09:54,759 --> 00:09:59,620 democratic as he was last time yes yes 192 00:09:57,220 --> 00:10:02,110 but not to the Social Democratic I think 193 00:09:59,620 --> 00:10:04,690 that his project then that what they 194 00:10:02,110 --> 00:10:07,930 call loonies new that's finished because 195 00:10:04,690 --> 00:10:10,089 it because of you have to look at this 196 00:10:07,930 --> 00:10:12,550 in an international contest new 197 00:10:10,089 --> 00:10:16,750 liberalism has run its course all over 198 00:10:12,550 --> 00:10:19,449 the world I went to a debate lecture 199 00:10:16,750 --> 00:10:23,019 with Lord Turner and he pointed out that 200 00:10:19,449 --> 00:10:27,250 in the last 10 years in the United 201 00:10:23,019 --> 00:10:29,529 States only now has four percent its GDP 202 00:10:27,250 --> 00:10:31,959 is four percent greater than 2007 203 00:10:29,529 --> 00:10:34,149 Britain is only one percent in the 204 00:10:31,959 --> 00:10:37,079 history of capitalism this has never 205 00:10:34,149 --> 00:10:40,180 happened you've never had a decade of 206 00:10:37,079 --> 00:10:43,180 very very slow growth in talked about in 207 00:10:40,180 --> 00:10:47,560 that European Union it was really good 208 00:10:43,180 --> 00:10:50,230 it's stagnant so this this new 209 00:10:47,560 --> 00:10:51,940 liberalism is is that the project is 210 00:10:50,230 --> 00:10:55,029 finished it does that's what you call 211 00:10:51,940 --> 00:10:56,560 the social contract between I mean 212 00:10:55,029 --> 00:11:02,019 capitalism we've always known that 213 00:10:56,560 --> 00:11:04,959 capitalism creates this equality but the 214 00:11:02,019 --> 00:11:07,449 poor have managed to get improved 215 00:11:04,959 --> 00:11:09,519 themselves and in Brazil the same thing 216 00:11:07,449 --> 00:11:12,579 I mean the the rich did get richer but 217 00:11:09,519 --> 00:11:15,189 the poor got less poor but that's over 218 00:11:12,579 --> 00:11:17,350 that's finished every and and I think 219 00:11:15,189 --> 00:11:20,259 the way it translates into Brazil in 220 00:11:17,350 --> 00:11:23,470 Latin America is the end of this the 221 00:11:20,259 --> 00:11:25,329 pink tide project so what you said is 222 00:11:23,470 --> 00:11:27,459 correct I think we have to make sure 223 00:11:25,329 --> 00:11:29,500 that Lula and I think the left in Brazil 224 00:11:27,459 --> 00:11:31,840 have to do that make sure that Lula is 225 00:11:29,500 --> 00:11:34,150 the next president he is candid because 226 00:11:31,840 --> 00:11:35,830 the ticket that you can win but it has 227 00:11:34,150 --> 00:11:38,200 to come from below it has to come from 228 00:11:35,830 --> 00:11:43,020 movement in the streets and a very 229 00:11:38,200 --> 00:11:46,150 strong anti austerity project that that 230 00:11:43,020 --> 00:11:48,280 well maybe they can learn from Britain 231 00:11:46,150 --> 00:11:50,620 we do but you really taken the words 232 00:11:48,280 --> 00:11:52,570 right of my heart would have thunk it 233 00:11:50,620 --> 00:11:56,200 that the British Labour Party leader 234 00:11:52,570 --> 00:11:58,450 might be someone was studying yeah or 235 00:11:56,200 --> 00:12:01,480 revolutionary movements I wouldn't say 236 00:11:58,450 --> 00:12:04,740 that America so you know what are you 237 00:12:01,480 --> 00:12:07,510 confident or are you pessimistic I'm 238 00:12:04,740 --> 00:12:12,450 confident because it's in my nature but 239 00:12:07,510 --> 00:12:12,450 and I think I think there has been 240 00:12:13,050 --> 00:12:18,490 demonstrations that this happens like 241 00:12:15,010 --> 00:12:21,070 the occupation of schools by very young 242 00:12:18,490 --> 00:12:23,860 kids I mean these kids as young as 243 00:12:21,070 --> 00:12:27,730 fourteen occupying schools to prevent 244 00:12:23,860 --> 00:12:30,550 the cuts in education and so there is 245 00:12:27,730 --> 00:12:33,640 potential for this but these movements 246 00:12:30,550 --> 00:12:35,740 so on because the the left as you said 247 00:12:33,640 --> 00:12:39,910 are all splintered up trade union 248 00:12:35,740 --> 00:12:42,160 movement is splintered up it if they can 249 00:12:39,910 --> 00:12:44,290 get there together there is a lot of 250 00:12:42,160 --> 00:12:46,690 potential and in Brazil's had their 251 00:12:44,290 --> 00:12:49,480 second general strike and the general 252 00:12:46,690 --> 00:12:51,670 strike were very successful street 253 00:12:49,480 --> 00:12:53,770 general strikes I mean you're talking 254 00:12:51,670 --> 00:12:57,010 about general strike in a country the 255 00:12:53,770 --> 00:12:59,530 size of Europe so it's like having a 256 00:12:57,010 --> 00:13:02,650 general strike in London you Charles go 257 00:12:59,530 --> 00:13:04,660 on well Jack was a country thank you 258 00:13:02,650 --> 00:13:07,180 very much indeed Orlando vacation Inc 259 00:13:04,660 --> 00:13:12,120 you on the sputnik coming up a veritable 260 00:13:07,180 --> 00:13:12,120 giant of stage and screen stay tuned 261 00:13:13,390 --> 00:13:15,450 you 262 00:13:20,490 --> 00:13:25,509 [Music] 263 00:13:22,230 --> 00:13:27,819 welcome back to Sputnik he has a list of 264 00:13:25,509 --> 00:13:29,730 film credits as long as your arm from 265 00:13:27,819 --> 00:13:32,230 Indiana Jones to Midnight Express 266 00:13:29,730 --> 00:13:35,079 although he'll always be the wily 267 00:13:32,230 --> 00:13:36,339 ambassador of Qumran Austin in yes Prime 268 00:13:35,079 --> 00:13:37,749 Minister for me 269 00:13:36,339 --> 00:13:40,600 he's now appearing in the great outdoors 270 00:13:37,749 --> 00:13:43,420 in Regent's Park open air theater in 271 00:13:40,600 --> 00:13:45,759 Charles Dickens epic tale of two cities 272 00:13:43,420 --> 00:13:48,249 he's the world's most famous Armenian 273 00:13:45,759 --> 00:13:50,379 he's a political rebel and fighter of 274 00:13:48,249 --> 00:13:52,749 the best causes so why wouldn't we 275 00:13:50,379 --> 00:13:55,689 welcome him onboard the sputnik the 276 00:13:52,749 --> 00:13:58,420 great the truly one and only Cavour 277 00:13:55,689 --> 00:14:01,319 malakian give orchids an honor to have 278 00:13:58,420 --> 00:14:04,329 you here let's start if we may with the 279 00:14:01,319 --> 00:14:06,790 open air performance which we've seen 280 00:14:04,329 --> 00:14:09,129 and which is truly magnificent it was 281 00:14:06,790 --> 00:14:11,769 the best of times it was the worst of 282 00:14:09,129 --> 00:14:14,589 times it's a far far greater thing I do 283 00:14:11,769 --> 00:14:17,980 than I have ever done before these words 284 00:14:14,589 --> 00:14:20,589 ring out across the ages how does it 285 00:14:17,980 --> 00:14:23,470 feel to be on stage amongst all these 286 00:14:20,589 --> 00:14:27,939 giant containers in the Regent's Park 287 00:14:23,470 --> 00:14:30,550 open air theater extremely trying 288 00:14:27,939 --> 00:14:32,050 because it is not an easy set at all and 289 00:14:30,550 --> 00:14:34,600 I think I can easily say it's probably 290 00:14:32,050 --> 00:14:38,980 the hardest production I've worked on 291 00:14:34,600 --> 00:14:44,050 but it is also possibly the best and the 292 00:14:38,980 --> 00:14:46,149 nicest production I've worked on because 293 00:14:44,050 --> 00:14:48,519 of the storyline of course it's 200 294 00:14:46,149 --> 00:14:48,970 years since l Vicens wrote A Tale of Two 295 00:14:48,519 --> 00:14:53,199 Cities 296 00:14:48,970 --> 00:14:55,209 but the adaptation by Matthew Dunster I 297 00:14:53,199 --> 00:14:57,910 think is wonderful the fact that it 298 00:14:55,209 --> 00:14:58,660 applies he's brought the story back to 299 00:14:57,910 --> 00:15:01,449 the world today 300 00:14:58,660 --> 00:15:03,429 exactly way the world is today and we 301 00:15:01,449 --> 00:15:05,889 sure absolutely and we share the world 302 00:15:03,429 --> 00:15:08,019 today and we go back to the 18th century 303 00:15:05,889 --> 00:15:10,660 as the world wars and the sad thing is 304 00:15:08,019 --> 00:15:13,329 that nothing has changed yeah yeah 305 00:15:10,660 --> 00:15:15,220 between the event VG's and Maria Valente 306 00:15:13,329 --> 00:15:19,629 assassinated these containers obviously 307 00:15:15,220 --> 00:15:22,360 represent Calais of the Palestinian 308 00:15:19,629 --> 00:15:26,500 refugees and the Syrian in Jordan or the 309 00:15:22,360 --> 00:15:28,360 Syrian refugees in Turkey so yes it is 310 00:15:26,500 --> 00:15:31,820 absolute sheer pleasure I think it's a 311 00:15:28,360 --> 00:15:36,200 wonderful production a great cast and 312 00:15:31,820 --> 00:15:40,310 beautifully directed I think painful in 313 00:15:36,200 --> 00:15:42,770 many ways yes to have true I sound 314 00:15:40,310 --> 00:15:45,530 listen to my words at the end of it it 315 00:15:42,770 --> 00:15:47,360 was so powerful and this they are till 316 00:15:45,530 --> 00:15:51,410 5th of August so people still got a 317 00:15:47,360 --> 00:15:52,160 chance to see it but as you alluded to 318 00:15:51,410 --> 00:15:55,160 there 319 00:15:52,160 --> 00:15:58,010 not that much has changed really there's 320 00:15:55,160 --> 00:16:01,070 still two cities in every two cities are 321 00:15:58,010 --> 00:16:04,130 still two countries in every country and 322 00:16:01,070 --> 00:16:06,290 the world is still ill divide it it is 323 00:16:04,130 --> 00:16:10,730 remarkable I was thinking of after I saw 324 00:16:06,290 --> 00:16:12,950 your production after all that upheaval 325 00:16:10,730 --> 00:16:14,660 and revolution and political change and 326 00:16:12,950 --> 00:16:16,850 we're now in the centenary of the 327 00:16:14,660 --> 00:16:18,170 Russian Revolution the great October 328 00:16:16,850 --> 00:16:20,930 Revolution and so on 329 00:16:18,170 --> 00:16:23,480 actually we're now back in a world 330 00:16:20,930 --> 00:16:26,180 there's not that much different from the 331 00:16:23,480 --> 00:16:32,110 one that existed as enzymes that Dickens 332 00:16:26,180 --> 00:16:36,350 was writing alive absolutely sir we keep 333 00:16:32,110 --> 00:16:38,960 hearing and and we have over many many 334 00:16:36,350 --> 00:16:41,270 years since I was born and we keep 335 00:16:38,960 --> 00:16:43,960 yearning for a better world that one day 336 00:16:41,270 --> 00:16:47,300 one day governments will learn 337 00:16:43,960 --> 00:16:50,600 politicians will money men will learn et 338 00:16:47,300 --> 00:16:52,520 cetera but it seems as if the world 339 00:16:50,600 --> 00:16:54,830 doesn't learn and sounds little will 340 00:16:52,520 --> 00:16:58,160 look at any fair yeah you know early we 341 00:16:54,830 --> 00:17:01,370 turkeys to hope for Christmas and and 342 00:16:58,160 --> 00:17:04,190 the voters vote for people who are 343 00:17:01,370 --> 00:17:07,370 actually against their own interests but 344 00:17:04,190 --> 00:17:09,320 that's another another matter 345 00:17:07,370 --> 00:17:11,780 as I said you're the world's most famous 346 00:17:09,320 --> 00:17:14,240 Armenian but you are actually one very 347 00:17:11,780 --> 00:17:16,910 very nice for your meat a lot more 348 00:17:14,240 --> 00:17:18,910 famous Armenians than me well lovely of 349 00:17:16,910 --> 00:17:22,700 you coming from you it has to be true 350 00:17:18,910 --> 00:17:25,010 thanks as I say you what you're you're 351 00:17:22,700 --> 00:17:27,460 never more dangerous than when you were 352 00:17:25,010 --> 00:17:30,410 being perfectly charming that's what the 353 00:17:27,460 --> 00:17:32,810 independent theater review of your Yes 354 00:17:30,410 --> 00:17:36,350 Prime Minister actually said and Wiley 355 00:17:32,810 --> 00:17:40,940 I'm embarrassed and very bad here the 356 00:17:36,350 --> 00:17:44,340 the the situation that were in in Turkey 357 00:17:40,940 --> 00:17:47,340 is fraught let's put it no higher than 358 00:17:44,340 --> 00:17:49,770 that you still come and go there you've 359 00:17:47,340 --> 00:17:51,630 got an important film festival with all 360 00:17:49,770 --> 00:17:53,309 your films coming up showing you've got 361 00:17:51,630 --> 00:17:56,669 a book coming out but there's no point 362 00:17:53,309 --> 00:18:02,159 in denying is that for intellectuals for 363 00:17:56,669 --> 00:18:05,340 the cultural milieu in Turkey for the 364 00:18:02,159 --> 00:18:07,650 political class and for the mass of the 365 00:18:05,340 --> 00:18:09,809 people that are they are beset by many 366 00:18:07,650 --> 00:18:12,659 many problems in contemporary Turkey of 367 00:18:09,809 --> 00:18:15,870 course it said the Middle East is in a 368 00:18:12,659 --> 00:18:19,770 huge in a huge sadly : 369 00:18:15,870 --> 00:18:22,500 renessa absolutely and it has been for I 370 00:18:19,770 --> 00:18:24,270 think the the trouble is and of course 371 00:18:22,500 --> 00:18:26,539 there are two sides to the coins of 372 00:18:24,270 --> 00:18:30,779 obviously if you live in the land if we 373 00:18:26,539 --> 00:18:35,279 buy in our sort of belief and Western 374 00:18:30,779 --> 00:18:37,890 sort of understanding of democracy by 375 00:18:35,279 --> 00:18:41,610 getting what grid of people like Saddam 376 00:18:37,890 --> 00:18:44,669 Hussein and the Libyan leader Colonel 377 00:18:41,610 --> 00:18:47,250 Gaddafi etc and now the Syrian leader 378 00:18:44,669 --> 00:18:52,409 and we are actually we have actually 379 00:18:47,250 --> 00:18:53,970 disturbed the whole area and and how are 380 00:18:52,409 --> 00:18:55,710 we going to deal with it with we've 381 00:18:53,970 --> 00:18:58,320 really gone back at least these people 382 00:18:55,710 --> 00:19:01,260 to some extent rule the country there 383 00:18:58,320 --> 00:19:03,570 was a sort of unity that was they 384 00:19:01,260 --> 00:19:06,690 coexisted in many ways Christian or 385 00:19:03,570 --> 00:19:08,490 Muslim etc now it's I just don't know I 386 00:19:06,690 --> 00:19:10,679 mean as a little actor I have absolutely 387 00:19:08,490 --> 00:19:13,470 no idea how it's going to be solved I 388 00:19:10,679 --> 00:19:16,610 think we have ruined the place for years 389 00:19:13,470 --> 00:19:20,580 to come and everyone I have to be I 390 00:19:16,610 --> 00:19:24,720 wasn't had lived in London since 1963 391 00:19:20,580 --> 00:19:28,580 and but when I went back in 2011 and 392 00:19:24,720 --> 00:19:31,169 2012 I have to say this it's obviously 393 00:19:28,580 --> 00:19:34,020 these are extremely difficult times in 394 00:19:31,169 --> 00:19:40,140 Turkey for everybody but particularly 395 00:19:34,020 --> 00:19:42,950 for journalists writers a certain 396 00:19:40,140 --> 00:19:46,320 section of the politicians who like you 397 00:19:42,950 --> 00:19:49,260 dares to speak the truth and paint the 398 00:19:46,320 --> 00:19:51,590 picture as it is but during everyone's 399 00:19:49,260 --> 00:19:55,280 reign which has never happened before 400 00:19:51,590 --> 00:19:58,730 everyone has allowed the publication of 401 00:19:55,280 --> 00:20:02,370 several books on the Armenian Genocide 402 00:19:58,730 --> 00:20:03,179 he has allowed discussions on television 403 00:20:02,370 --> 00:20:06,929 programs 404 00:20:03,179 --> 00:20:07,740 he has allowed conferences on lost 405 00:20:06,929 --> 00:20:10,049 Armenians 406 00:20:07,740 --> 00:20:12,539 etc but also so this is to be 407 00:20:10,049 --> 00:20:15,840 appreciated to a certain extent he's 408 00:20:12,539 --> 00:20:17,580 allowed he's given some land back back 409 00:20:15,840 --> 00:20:20,340 to the Armenians whether they're 410 00:20:17,580 --> 00:20:21,899 churches or big halls etc but 411 00:20:20,340 --> 00:20:25,320 nevertheless Hrant Dink was killed 412 00:20:21,899 --> 00:20:27,929 assassinated during his reign so there 413 00:20:25,320 --> 00:20:30,149 are questions to be asked and I there 414 00:20:27,929 --> 00:20:33,120 are questions to be asked of all 415 00:20:30,149 --> 00:20:35,760 politicians leaders all of the lives of 416 00:20:33,120 --> 00:20:38,789 over here oh yeah in any case you stood 417 00:20:35,760 --> 00:20:42,179 up for turkish honor i will recall in 418 00:20:38,789 --> 00:20:43,049 your role in the amazing film Midnight 419 00:20:42,179 --> 00:20:45,120 Express 420 00:20:43,049 --> 00:20:47,460 you were the Turkish prosecutor standing 421 00:20:45,120 --> 00:20:50,029 up for Turkish dignity that must stand 422 00:20:47,460 --> 00:20:53,370 you in some good stead yes yes yes I was 423 00:20:50,029 --> 00:20:55,649 totally although the belief was at the 424 00:20:53,370 --> 00:20:57,179 time that this was Armenian propaganda 425 00:20:55,649 --> 00:20:59,309 money and Greek propaganda money to 426 00:20:57,179 --> 00:21:02,039 paint Turkey as a as a horrible place 427 00:20:59,309 --> 00:21:05,340 you know but a my my answer to them was 428 00:21:02,039 --> 00:21:07,860 that prisons are prisons world over and 429 00:21:05,340 --> 00:21:10,019 the people who look after the prisons 430 00:21:07,860 --> 00:21:12,870 will do what they do in order to keep 431 00:21:10,019 --> 00:21:13,830 the you know the system doing it but 432 00:21:12,870 --> 00:21:16,230 they love me 433 00:21:13,830 --> 00:21:18,389 because I stood up for a principle as 434 00:21:16,230 --> 00:21:20,639 for photography I took no drugs in 435 00:21:18,389 --> 00:21:23,130 Turkey no drugs trafficking in Turkey 436 00:21:20,639 --> 00:21:26,970 and our prisons are absolutely wonderful 437 00:21:23,130 --> 00:21:30,120 they're like halo Gardens oh they've 438 00:21:26,970 --> 00:21:31,710 been the promises well yes I did and I'm 439 00:21:30,120 --> 00:21:32,789 so glad you mentioned it thank you very 440 00:21:31,710 --> 00:21:35,669 much I'm sure George would have 441 00:21:32,789 --> 00:21:39,059 mentioned it and I had I really had the 442 00:21:35,669 --> 00:21:40,500 the pleasure and the privilege to be in 443 00:21:39,059 --> 00:21:43,230 the premiere and I'm very grateful to 444 00:21:40,500 --> 00:21:46,529 tell you George for choosing me for the 445 00:21:43,230 --> 00:21:49,080 part of Oscar Isaac's father it is a 446 00:21:46,529 --> 00:21:51,809 film which I believe is 100 years too 447 00:21:49,080 --> 00:21:54,179 late to be made but it was never allowed 448 00:21:51,809 --> 00:21:56,519 to be made the MGM had it on their books 449 00:21:54,179 --> 00:21:58,620 for years to be filmed it was never 450 00:21:56,519 --> 00:22:01,919 allowed of because of pressure from 451 00:21:58,620 --> 00:22:04,769 Turkey being a NATO member etc but 452 00:22:01,919 --> 00:22:06,539 somehow you see again this time for the 453 00:22:04,769 --> 00:22:08,940 promise there was no pressure yeah that 454 00:22:06,539 --> 00:22:11,559 was on anybody so the film was made and 455 00:22:08,940 --> 00:22:15,159 as I said 102 years 456 00:22:11,559 --> 00:22:17,830 late but it was a I think it was a great 457 00:22:15,159 --> 00:22:20,289 film it was a wonderful wonderful film 458 00:22:17,830 --> 00:22:23,499 terrific cast terrifically directed and 459 00:22:20,289 --> 00:22:27,639 for the first time millions all over the 460 00:22:23,499 --> 00:22:31,450 world learned the true story of 1915 so 461 00:22:27,639 --> 00:22:35,080 yes it's a character enormous importance 462 00:22:31,450 --> 00:22:38,889 from the sublime to Indiana George how 463 00:22:35,080 --> 00:22:41,940 much fun was that to me I I would think 464 00:22:38,889 --> 00:22:46,840 probably the greatest fun I've had and 465 00:22:41,940 --> 00:22:48,999 and Harrison Ford is such a magical 466 00:22:46,840 --> 00:22:52,470 heart and wonderful generous actor and 467 00:22:48,999 --> 00:22:55,119 all my scenes fortunately were with him 468 00:22:52,470 --> 00:22:58,749 and also to work with Steven Spielberg 469 00:22:55,119 --> 00:23:00,279 and George Lucas was just what I didn't 470 00:22:58,749 --> 00:23:04,570 know and it was a wonderful wonderful 471 00:23:00,279 --> 00:23:07,269 surprises when an actor does his first 472 00:23:04,570 --> 00:23:10,720 scene on the film he shoots his first 473 00:23:07,269 --> 00:23:12,490 scene they walk both of them walk over 474 00:23:10,720 --> 00:23:15,669 to you and they say welcome to the 475 00:23:12,490 --> 00:23:18,730 family which is why they know it was a 476 00:23:15,669 --> 00:23:20,740 great great great experience and an 477 00:23:18,730 --> 00:23:23,110 experience and that I will cherish and I 478 00:23:20,740 --> 00:23:25,119 was I was kindly very generously invited 479 00:23:23,110 --> 00:23:28,360 to the role premiere with Prince Charles 480 00:23:25,119 --> 00:23:31,690 and Princess move in the West End now 481 00:23:28,360 --> 00:23:35,139 you are in the play Tale of Two Cities 482 00:23:31,690 --> 00:23:37,990 you play a 78 year old man you're in 483 00:23:35,139 --> 00:23:40,210 fact a mere stripling of 74 which is 484 00:23:37,990 --> 00:23:43,179 astounding to me because you look at 485 00:23:40,210 --> 00:23:44,740 least 20 years younger in fact if I look 486 00:23:43,179 --> 00:23:48,039 like you are half-past four I'll be 487 00:23:44,740 --> 00:23:50,769 counting I have your looks an hour are 488 00:23:48,039 --> 00:23:53,049 you going to are you going to work until 489 00:23:50,769 --> 00:23:57,490 the end is there any prospect of you 490 00:23:53,049 --> 00:24:01,119 retiring here later why I think I could 491 00:23:57,490 --> 00:24:03,490 probably exist on of Olives and and 492 00:24:01,119 --> 00:24:05,320 cheese and cucumber and tomatoes which 493 00:24:03,490 --> 00:24:06,610 is what we grew up with in eastern 494 00:24:05,320 --> 00:24:10,240 Turkey what I was born in the other 495 00:24:06,610 --> 00:24:12,610 bucket but my belief is I love my 496 00:24:10,240 --> 00:24:14,889 profession and as particularly the 497 00:24:12,610 --> 00:24:17,519 theater but in general I love my 498 00:24:14,889 --> 00:24:21,399 profession and for as long as God 499 00:24:17,519 --> 00:24:24,309 enables me to keep the alertness of my 500 00:24:21,399 --> 00:24:25,420 brain and the wealth of goodness health 501 00:24:24,309 --> 00:24:28,060 of my body 502 00:24:25,420 --> 00:24:30,160 I will go on but I think I will know the 503 00:24:28,060 --> 00:24:31,870 day when I'm sure somehow I open up 504 00:24:30,160 --> 00:24:34,030 resilience yes it's been an honor to 505 00:24:31,870 --> 00:24:35,860 have you on the spot neck thank you sir 506 00:24:34,030 --> 00:24:39,450 Alex thank you very much the privilege 507 00:24:35,860 --> 00:24:41,580 is mine many things thank you thank you 508 00:24:39,450 --> 00:24:43,930 [Music] 509 00:24:41,580 --> 00:24:46,030 and now it's your turn to tell us what 510 00:24:43,930 --> 00:24:47,980 you think through the portals of social 511 00:24:46,030 --> 00:24:51,580 media what's rattling Gayatri well on 512 00:24:47,980 --> 00:24:54,280 the Brazil case then there says there's 513 00:24:51,580 --> 00:24:56,710 no real hope left for the left anywhere 514 00:24:54,280 --> 00:24:59,140 wherever it gets a foothold the wealthy 515 00:24:56,710 --> 00:25:02,650 and the market make sure of its demise 516 00:24:59,140 --> 00:25:05,130 and the tales of Two Cities which know 517 00:25:02,650 --> 00:25:07,990 it was the second best-selling book ever 518 00:25:05,130 --> 00:25:10,950 Kentucky says seems like there are the 519 00:25:07,990 --> 00:25:13,510 same unjust oppressors noble heroes and 520 00:25:10,950 --> 00:25:15,750 disinterested fence sitters as always 521 00:25:13,510 --> 00:25:18,330 only now there's computers and iPhones 522 00:25:15,750 --> 00:25:22,240 I've never been in the presence of 523 00:25:18,330 --> 00:25:25,900 anyone with the Grace and the class of 524 00:25:22,240 --> 00:25:29,320 Quebec I must say and he's optimistic 525 00:25:25,900 --> 00:25:31,780 about the future as was Orlando yeah I 526 00:25:29,320 --> 00:25:33,640 happen to think both of them are correct 527 00:25:31,780 --> 00:25:36,280 well that's all the time we've got for 528 00:25:33,640 --> 00:25:38,080 the tweets which alas means that's the 529 00:25:36,280 --> 00:25:40,210 end of the short but you can stay in 530 00:25:38,080 --> 00:25:42,880 touch with us on Facebook Sputnik on 531 00:25:40,210 --> 00:25:45,550 Russia today or Twitter and Instagram 532 00:25:42,880 --> 00:25:47,740 RT underscore spot me it's goodbye for 533 00:25:45,550 --> 00:25:50,850 me Gayatri and for me George Galloway 534 00:25:47,740 --> 00:25:50,850 it's been marvelous 535 00:26:01,450 --> 00:26:04,849 [Music]